The Measure [SA] is an extremely talented band. They’re able to occupy shared space very nicely. By that, I mean they’re both rockin’ and thoughtful. They’re poetic yet plain spoken. They’ve got boatloads of integrity but aren’t interested in steamrollering listeners with dogma. Their songs are romantic without the sap, poignant without brittle preciousness. Not to put too fine a point on it, I think they’re a wonderful band. They just happen to be clustered in punk, and everyone seems fine with that. They just happen to be sweet people, too. If you want a big dose of them, I highly recommend their collection LP One Chapter in the Book: A Collection of Standard Waits and Measurements.
I’ll come right out and say it. I’m super anal when it comes to interviewing bands. That’s why I only interview bands I downright love. I pretty much demand the interview happen in a quiet place. Otherwise, it’s off. No backstage-during-soundcheck nonsense. No, “let’s do it in a bar and drink with our friends” stuff. What most people don’t realize is that there are no magic elves who transcribe what’s recorded. It’s a grueling gig in and of itself when every word spoken is crystal clear. I don’t want to struggle to decipher what people say while wrestling around the notes of a Bruce Springsteen tune blasting in the background over and over again. I try to limit anything that will lengthen the already-daunting process.
But life is funny.
Vince started helping out with Razorcake over a year ago. I like Vince. We have great talks about philosophy (his major). He’s wicked proficient in ‘90s punk to the present, and he’s a mild-mannered, no bullshit dude. I’ll take responsibility for this one. We drove the thirty miles from Highland Park down to San Pedro, California. And, as my mom taught me when visiting friends, it’s always nice to bring something along to share. Vince and I bought a cube of Tecate. It wasn’t that late, maybe around 3 PM. I had some soft errands to run down in Pedro. Vince articulately recited a couple of questions to me he had prepared for the band. By 2 AM when the interview actually commenced, I thought, “I have learned an important lesson. No beer for Vince before sundown.” During the show, Vince pulled some crowd-surfer-of-one action and, later that night, was to forget micturating in a place unbecoming of a gentleman.
Such are the risks we run in our profession.
And since we’re on the interweb and I feel like talking, what evolves as a subtext in this interview is a group of people being very kind to an overly drunk, good dude. Keep in mind that none of these folks had met Vince prior to that day, and I’d only met them a couple of times. Vince, literally and figuratively, walked in and out of the conversation, got on a skateboard with everyone wincing for his well being, and was generally non-linear.
Here’s another thing that may help a bit. Mikey is formerly of The Ergs!. This interview took place in the silk-screening basement of the fine San Pedro band, Killer Dreamer.
Lauren: vocals, guitar
Fid: vocals, guitar
Interview by Todd Taylor and Vincent
Transcription by Vincent
Todd: When’s the last time that music made you feel superhuman?
Fid: Like a fuckin’ hour ago when we played. Every fuckin’ night. Seriously, man.
Mikey: It does have to do with playing a kickass show or playing to a bunch of people who really love your band. They know your words.
Tim: Just seeing even two kids singing back what Lauren’s singing is really cool.
Lauren: That’s always been my thing. That’s my line of demarcation. When people sing along, when you can tell that people know the songs already, that’s the point. It’s nice to see people…
[Vincent brings up Reggae Monkey, a sticker he saw earlier in the evening and now sees in the practice room that the interview is taking place. Vincent is fixated on Reggae Monkey. Fid brings up Riverside for the save. Tim takes the baton and runs with it.]
Tim: Like the show that we played earlier today in Riverside at Party Marty’s house. We rolled up when the first band was waiting to play. Party Marty gave us this spiel about how all these kids came out of nowhere. Then, immediately, the first song we played, all these kids were singing along. Everyone was having a good time, giving everyone beers. I was like, “Wow, all this is happening because we’re here playing these stupid fucking songs.” Up until recently, no one cared about these songs. I’ve always enjoyed playing them. Now people enjoy watching us play them, which is awesome.
Todd: Tim, how did you join the band?
Tim: Well, I was a roadie and when Big A bailed out, I lived with Fid…
Fid: Can I tell the story?
Tim: You sure can.
Fid: He traveled with us on all our tours and was the de facto fifth member of the band, anyway. When Big A, our old bass player, couldn’t do it anymore, we had some big shows coming up that were pretty important, and it turned out that Tim Burke is a really good bass player. I asked, “Could you fill in for these two shows?” He was like, “Dude, I’ll just be in the band.” I was like, “I thought you didn’t like us.” He said, “Uh, you guys are okay.” So, that’s how Tim Burke joined the band. He was already in the band carrying all our shit anyway.
Todd: So, Tim, how’d it go from okay to superhuman for you?
Tim: Uh, well, watching them is okay, but getting to play along with them is superhuman. Plus, Fid and I are really close. The fact that we get to play together, rules. I enjoy that aspect of it. It’s a good time.
Fid: This is all true. We used to have a really shit bag drummer.
Fid: Yeah. [Laughter] Turns out that I’m not good at drums. Then when our old guitar player couldn’t do it anymore, we got Mikey to play drums. It turns out that he’s alright at drums. He may or may not have played drums in some bands before. Then I got to play guitar. Mikey is a first take drummer. I just wanted to throw that out there for the world to know. Every song that we record, he does it on the first take.
Mikey: I have a policy.
Lauren: Crazy trivia.
Mikey: I come from jazz. I love jazz. I can’t fucking play jazz or anything. [Laughter] But Miles Davis was recording Kind of Blue, and he said that “the first complete take that we get is going on the record” because that’s where the feeling was.
Fid: That’s some Jackson Pollack shit. There are no mistakes. If he throws paint on the canvas and that’s where it lands, that’s where it’s supposed to go. That’s pretty fucking cool.
Mikey: That’s how I feel. I feel like if I miss a kick drum or I miss a symbol, the feeling was there the whole take because I felt it while I was playing it. If I think about it too much, the feeling goes away.
Todd: You think of someone like Mike Watt who has become very much in demand just because he’s a great bass player and a really affable guy. He knows how to play, regardless of the style.
Mikey: In my realm of understanding, there’s Josh Freese, who’s just this solid, incredible drummer who gets called to do anything. He gets called everyday to drum for all these bands like Nine Inch Nails, A Perfect Circle, Devo, Suicidal Tendencies.
Todd: And his solo stuff is awful.
Todd: Needs a little bit of direction.
Fid: So, what you’re saying is that you don’t like Mikey’s solo shit?
Todd: I haven’t heard his solo shit.
Mikey: I don’t have any solo shit…yet. [Laughter]
Vincent: Michael, really quick, what’s up with Psyched To Die? (Mike’s thrash band)
Mikey: We just recorded a 7” (Sterile Walls).
Fid: Which is really excellent, by the way.
Vincent: Everything that I’ve heard from Psyched To Die, which is, like, two songs, is rad.
Fid: Please turn this into a Psyched To Die interview. So, tell me Mike, how is it being up front playing guitar?
Mikey: It’s nice. I get out from behind the drums and play guitar… [Laughter]
[Vincent obviously has a fucked up notion of “really quick” as he tries to ask Mikey more questions not related to Measure [SA]. Vincent is somehow silenced.]
Todd: All right, I come from the perspective where I don’t make music at all. I came to a point a long time ago that the music I consume and really like has a lot more meaning than the notes that are played. When did you come to the same realization?
Fid: There’s so much more to being in a band or seeing a show than the actual notes that are played. A perfect example is being on tour. I just got to see the Pacific Ocean for the first time in my life. I got to hang out with friends in Gainesville that I usually see once a year at Fest, but I got to see them on our terms. We got to roll in and have their attention, and they showed us around their town. What we’re playing is gravy. It’s really cool that I really like what we’re doing and people are responding to it, but it’s just getting to see this side of life and not be sitting at our fucking house doing our stupid fucking jobs.
Mikey: It kinda goes back to the DIY question. I joined Dirt Bike Annie right out of high school. We were a touring band. I saw the whole country at twenty or twenty-one. I’ve been doing it since, for eight years. I don’t know anyone except for this circle of friends. Nobody I went to high school with did what I did when I got out of high school. That makes me feel like I didn’t waste my life by going into the straight world and…
Todd: Becoming a real estate agent.
Mikey: Becoming a real estate agent. I saw America. I haven’t been able to get to Europe yet, but I saw America. I don’t know too many people who have done that.
Vincent: What’s one piece of America you don’t think you would’ve seen otherwise?
Mikey: All of it. I mean, Fid saw the Pacific Ocean for the first time.
Fid: I’ve seen both sides of the Atlantic, but this is an experience that I never would have had. I can’t do anything on my own. I wouldn’t have just up and gotten in a van.
Mikey: I’m seeing things that I never would have seen. I never would have gone to Arizona for any other reason. Why would I go to Arizona? I love it there and it’s beautiful there and I know a lot of people there because I’ve toured through there a few times. I love playing music, but I go on tour to see my friends.
Fid: We could have a sweet show at home—actually, no. No one likes us there. [Laughter]
Lauren: For me, the reason I started writing music was inspired by folks who got me through certain times. The songs that I wrote that are about a specific place or time aren’t cathartic anymore. I don’t like playing them anymore, even if I think they are good songs. I don’t suggest that we play them anymore just because if they don’t do anything for me personally, then I don’t have that motive anymore. When we go on tour and see our friends, we get to do all this awesome stuff and get to play these songs that mean something to us and help us. It’s that personal connection to us that makes it not matter whether or not it’s a specifically catchy song or anyone else likes it. If we’re all into it, we wanna play it.
Fid: It’s group therapy every night. I get to exorcise my demons—keep them fresh, keep them sharp.
[Vincent flounders to show the band that he made connection of a line from the film Idiocracy to the title of the band’s album Songs about People…and Fruit n’ Shit. The band kindly assisted his poor effort. Then he asks the band whether or not the title is meant to imply that they are whores. Vincent failed to make the connection directly to the character who uttered the line, which was a person who made money from sleeping with people, played by Mya Rudolph. The band charitably seems to make the connection. The band answers negatively. They do not believe that they are whores. The band says that they all like Mya Rudolph and thought that the line was hilarious. Vincent seems to grasp this point.]
Todd: Do you consider any other pre-existing texts, besides the Martin Luther King Jr. acceptance speech for the Nobel Prize, as an inspiration for a song?
Lauren: That was pretty specific. That was the idea.
Fid: I use lines from other stuff all the time. There’s a new song that ends with Robert Frost’s epitaph. I wrote the words to the song and the lyrics reminded me of that classic Robert Frost poem, which is slightly misunderstood. He had a tongue in cheek approach to the “Road Less Traveled.” He was actually being somewhat cynical in it, and I thought that was an interesting way of looking at it. So, that line is in it. There’s another one of our songs inspired by Peter Rodino. He was a representative from New Jersey who was the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee during the Nixon impeachment trial. He kind of kept the country calm and together with his demeanor. He was friends with this newspaper reporter. When he was in his nineties and was sick and dying, he told the reporter to “keep that good heart” during their last meeting. I fuckin’ love that line. I, personally, pilfer things all the time. Lauren’s actually much more creative, so she comes up with her own words. But, like, every song of mine has a line from somewhere. [Laughter]
Lauren: The first line of “Trainage” is a quote from Bismarck where he was trying to get people to shut up and listen to him.
Todd: Otto von Bismarck, the first Chancellor of Germany?
Lauren: Yeah. I was researching something. I wrote that line down for some reason.
Fid: There’s a Mike Watt line in the chorus.
Lauren: The only time that I was in a room with Mike Watt, he said, “Time’s a locomotive that’ll run you over anyway.”
Fid: You interviewed him, right?
Lauren: No, I was there at WFMU when he did an interview and performance. I got to sit in.
Todd: Is “Oslo” actually Martin Luther King’s acceptance speech for the Nobel Prize, word for word?
Fid: Yes, it’s word for word. The thing is that I broke it up. One line gets repeated because I had no idea how to sing it in a standard 4/4 approach to rock’n’roll. So, I asked Lauren to sing it. But, yeah, that’s a direct quote from his acceptance speech.
Todd: Has anyone zoned out on the covers of Measure 7”s or the album and got a new vocabulary word that they can actually use? [Laughter]
Mikey: I always wanted sit down and absorb it, but I never did.
Lauren: There’s one word on the cover of One Chapter in the Book that a couple of people have asked about. It’s like: s-n-something. It’s really random.
Todd: Like speckled anus or something. [Laughter] It’s subliminal.
Lauren: “Sprangled.” That’s the word. “Spread out in different directions.”
Fid: That’s what we’re going for. [Laughter]
Todd: Has anyone had the wrong impression that your shows feature “live, stuffed beavers”? (The band brings along stuffed GUND teddy bear-like beavers to all of their shows.)
Fid: Why would that be the wrong impression? Our shows do feature live stuffed beavers. [Laughter]
Mikey: We’ve had someone come up to us on this tour and ask, “So, why the beavers?”
Fid andMikey: And Walter, one of the beavers, answers, “Why not?”
Fid: A couple of people were actually psyched.
Lauren: People come up and actually know them. They’re very aware of their presence.
Mikey: They’re band members. They have to be there.
Fid: They are the fifth, six, and seventh band members.
Lauren: They’re sleeping right now.
Todd: None of you are young. None of you are, like, twenty.
Fid: Absolutely not.
Tim: I’m twenty-three.
Todd: Even still, how do you stay positive without deluding yourself beyond the first loss of idealism?
Lauren: I feel like every time that I want to get a job, somebody puts on some record that I remember singing along to at a show, or something happens with my friends at home. There’s always something that reminds me why we’re doing this.
Fid: Idealism is interesting because I’m in my thirties now, which blows my fucking mind. I still believe everything that I wanted to believe when I was younger because it is feasible to think that people should respect each other and treat each other decently. It’s cool because every time I’m proven wrong, it’s a good thing. I like being proven wrong. I like seeing my preconceived notions of situations get turned on their head when I’m mistaken. I’ve talked about this with Lauren a lot because there have been a lot of times where I erroneously thought, “That girl is here with one of the guys in the band.” I imagine that happens to Lauren a lot. She’s the voice of The Measure, for god’s sake. People who haven’t heard us are probably like, “Why’s that girl carrying the guitar?” I love shit like that because it makes you realize that you don’t have everything figured out.
The election of Barack Obama was eye-opening because I voted in many elections but had never voted for a major party candidate because I could not bring myself to do it. Every four years, it’s been some jackass who I can’t support. I’ve voted for Ralph Nader three times. It’s completely ineffectual, but it’s a protest. You’re registering your protest because we are afforded that opportunity. This year, it was like, “I can’t believe that I’m voting for a major party candidate.” It was this idea of optimism that is bordering on idealism. Things got so bad that people got excited about the process again. It happens all the time on a local level and to be able to capture that or be a part of it is what, I think, the point of playing music is. It’s nothing but trying to create art, I guess, which sounds pretentious, but you really are. I mean, you’re taking notes and putting words to it. What else can you do?
Todd: Modern media tries to separate everyone in this room into five or six different categories. “Don’t talk to one another; don’t worry about making a community because we’ll provide that community for you.” The Warped Tour is an example of that.
Fid: It’s not necessarily about the product, but about a group of people who have something in common. And I have nothing in common with the great majority of people going to the Warped Tour because they’re half my age, which is fucking nuts. However, I do have a lot in common with those kids in that I want everything to be okay and I want to have a good time, in the lamest sense of the term. I want to have something to hope for and look forward to. I have that in common with them. You wouldn’t otherwise figure that out. There’s no way for me to connect with these people who I’ll never meet except for music. Art is the broader idea of that. Lauren gets to see all ends of that ‘cause she does make posters and makes art for a living. That’s how we connected with that kid in Phoenix. You sent that kid that we stayed with all those posters.
Lauren: We walked into his house and he had four of my drawings hanging on the wall. [Laughter]
Fid: Which is really cool because I don’t think that kid would’ve stumbled onto your artwork if it weren’t for music, and that’s a whole other realm of understanding that you get to share with him.
Lauren: I feel like it’s not really that everyone who is at a show or is your friend because they like the same records as you. You’re all coming at it from a completely different perspective. Everyone I know has that connection to music for completely different reasons. It’s all about your own background and what you gain from it. That’s what builds a community. That’s why I feel it’s stronger here than anywhere else because it’s not just a blind “I’m gonna buy a ticket because everyone else is.”
[Vincent brings up Blatz. There is no apparent reason why he brought them up. Talk of Filth and Blatz ensued. Vincent had no question.]
Todd: What’s the worst physical decision you’ve ever made? I came to this question the other day when I was doing some electrical work. I knew that I should have flipped a fuse off, but I didn’t and I mildly electrocuted myself. So, what bad physical decisions have you made in recent memory, or as a kid? Handstands or ghost riding a bike…
Fid: When I was a kid, I ate a chunk of soap because I thought it was a hunk of cheddar cheese. I also ate a candle because I thought it was salt water taffy. I was a stupid kid. [Laughter]
Tim: I’m probably one of the clumsiest people you’ll ever meet in your life.
Fid: He trips up the stairs regularly.
Tim: I don’t know how much I’ve physically harmed myself.
Mikey: Are you talking about how much you’re a klutz?
Tim: I’ve fallen up stairs, I’ve fallen down stairs. I once fell down the stairs of the bar I worked at while holding a keg. I’m a pretty klutzy dude. I hurt myself so often that I can’t even keep track of how it happens.
Todd: Machines malfunction around me. I just fucked up the pinball machine at the bar we were at half an hour ago. I had a blowout on the way down here. It’s not about me, it’s about you guys. What about you, Mike?
Tim: There was that time that you had to get carried out the bar.
Mikey: Yeah, that was a bad decision.
Todd: Go ahead. Drinking’s a bad decision sometimes.
Mikey: The Ergs! had played the Triple Rock twice before and both times the shows were awful.
Mikey: I get really nervous around people I really admire. Triple Rock is not a punk bar. I mean, it’s a punk bar, and then you walk into the venue. It’s a huge venue. I really fucked up.
Todd: Was it you or other people that said you fucked up?
Mikey: Nobody said that we sucked or anything, but we knew that we weren’t on our game.
[Vincent interrupts to praise the Ergs! He has a hard time believing that the Ergs! ever played poorly. It’s as mind boggling for him as the father, son, and holy ghost bit.]
Mikey: Anyway, the point of the story is that we went back through on a tour with Lemuria. There were a bunch of people there and we played really well. Minneapolis is like my favorite music scene ever. Hüsker Dü, The Replacements, Dillinger Four—most of my favorite bands are from Minneapolis. I was just like, “We conqueredMinneapolis.” I took the opportunity to get trashed. Billy’s there bartending, Paddy’s buying shots (both are in Dillinger Four). I’m doing double shots of Powers. I didn’t eat that much that day. I got fucked up. Our roadie, who’s probably the biggest drunk in New Brunswick, is carrying me out of the bar. I was puking all over the bar… It was a bad thing. I have this cursed shirt that I wear. It’s a plain red shirt. Every time I’ve worn it, I’ve puked all over the place.
Todd: Why do you wear that shirt, then?
Mikey: Because I like the way it looks.
Todd: Get another red shirt, man.
Mikey: I haven’t worn it since.
Fid: We were watching the Bananas in Brooklyn and had to record the next day. Lauren, Mikey, and I had to take the train back.
Lauren: I was fine.
Fid: He threw up all over himself. There was vomit in the pocket of his sweatshirt.
Mikey: Let me switch the story. That was the last bad physical decision I made.
[Vincent asks the identical question about Idiocracy again. The band, understandably, doesn’t react as calmly. They explain to Vincent one more time why they chose that line for the title: because it’s funny. Vincent doesn’t seem to grasp it this time. He rambles on. Lauren brings the interview back to the topic. For the record, The Measure still don’t consider themselves “whores.”]
Lauren: My back’s all fucked up, so I barely do anything.
Todd: How’s your back fucked up?
Lauren: I had surgery when I was a kid. So, my back’s all pieced together.
Fid: Do you set off metal detectors?
Lauren: My back doesn’t set off metal detectors, which is really a bummer.
[Vincent touches Fid, not in a “bad touch” kind of way, but Fid doesn’t want Vincent touching him and requests that the touching cease. Vincent is told that he is being really obnoxious and needs to cool out.]
Lauren: I have no business being near a mosh pit.
Todd: The other side of the coin. How do you keep your ideology without becoming a douchebag?
Lauren: I feel like it’s all about understanding other people. It’s about acceptance and being open minded. I understand that people fight their own battles. I have my own ideals. As long as other people can stand up for themselves and what they believe in, go for it. I don’t think I’m a jerk about judging other people.
Fid: It’s experience and, to be honest, it’s privilege. You have to understand that everyone has their own life. Everyone has gone through things that you’ll never understand. They don’t owe you an explanation. When you’re forceful about your beliefs, you need to understand there’s someone who has had a completely different life than you, has no interest in your beliefs, and can back it up with a million reasons why that doesn’t appeal to them. But this isn’t a contest. We’re all trying to get to the same place, which is a better place the way I look at it. I don’t eat meat, but I don’t mind if other people do. It’s just my experience, and I choose not to eat meat. Because I’m so lazy, I like to do something that I think is in the right direction [laughter]. That seems like the easiest way to do it.
Todd: That’s good, because culturally, as a band, you can travel the United States. You could travel around the world and realize that there are cultures where vegetarianism doesn’t exist.
Mikey: There are big billboards up north, like in North Dakota, that say to eat meat.
Todd: “Help the economy!”
Fid: It’s a privilege to decide what I do and don’t eat; and I can choose to quit a job and go on tour for awhile. It’s tough. Sometimes it’s hard to make ends meet, but, fuck it, I’m not in abject poverty, I’m not in a refugee camp. They are concerns that a lot of people will never have to deal with because they have more pressing matters that they have to deal with, like staying alive or feeding their kids.
Mikey: A funny Ergs! story I have from one of our tours: Everybody in the band, including the roadie, were vegetarian, except for me. We went to this Burger King. Four people in a row ordered the veggie burger. The cook literally came out and said, “Another veggie burger?!?” [Laughter] We were like, “Yes.” So even in the Northern United States, it’s what they thrive on.
Todd: You go to North Dakota and say that you don’t eat meat, and they’re like, “But you eat chicken, right?”
Mikey: It was just so funny because it was like they didn’t even understand. They didn’t even know why Burger King was offering the vegetarian burger.
Fid: At McDonald’s, they had garden nuggets, which was, like, the best thing I ever saw…
Todd: We don’t have to boil our water for half an hour to remove the microbes…
Fid: Exactly. I always think about the next generation. I certainly don’t want to have kids, but if I did, I’d have to weigh the pros and cons. I’d wanna make sure that the kid was healthy. I ate meat, so I decided to stop eating meat and I’m relatively healthy. Well, that’s just a guess; I haven’t been to a doctor in, like, ten years…I’m still here. I wouldn’t buy meat and wouldn’t want to cook meat for a child, but these are things that you’d have to take into account. There’s a way to do it. Some people have cats and don’t want to give ‘em meat. But your cat needs fuckin’ cat food, man. You gotta understand that. We are privileged, all of us from the first world.
Lauren: I feel that we’ve all been in those situations where we come across people who we don’t see eye to eye with or don’t understand why we care about music. But you come to where you have to explain to people why you care about the things that you care about.
Mikey: My parents don’t understand why I’m doing this right here and not getting paid. You have to explain it.
Todd: It’s a different type of currency.
Fid: If you can’t explain why you’re doing it, you have no business doing it.
Mikey: My father played drums in a cover band. That’s how he raised us.
Lauren: I feel like everyone should be able to explain why it is that they do what they do.
Fid: There’s a fine line between sloganeering and actual common sense. I think that if people are in love, they should be able to get married. That’s the most straight forward thing to me. But I understand the ammunition behind a bunch of people’s hatred of that idea because it says to them in their holy book that people should live a certain lifestyle. Not only is that a shame, but those are some irreconcilable differences. What needs to happen is something akin to what happened in the ‘60s. It needs to be a big issue. It needs to be a civil rights idea that’s pushed.
Lauren: There are those things where you can say that we agree to disagree, but there are other things that you just can’t let people sit on. You can’t just stand there.
Fid: Which is why I don’t engage most of the populous in our conversations. [Laughter] I pride myself on being able to talk to anyone because I like to find what we have in common and talk about that because it’s more fun to me to be able to talk to someone than just sit there and be miserable, but there’s a reason why there’s the punk scene. There’s a reason why there’s any type of scene. We’re just lucky that we get to do it. We’re in San Pedro, for fuck’s sake. This is fucking awesome.
Todd: The last question’s a real easy one: What’s “C-H-H-C”?
Todd: Yeah, I wrote that down wrong.
Fid: Well, it’s “C-H-H-C” on the design. HubCity Hardcore. New Brunswick is the HubCity.
Todd: I get the HubCity part. How’s it hardcore?
Tim: It’s not just The Measure. It’s more of a town-wide thing. I always saw hardcore as a term for punk rock.
Fid: It’s not a sound. It’s the attitude. It’s all these kids who want something more and do it themselves. I made up that symbol myself when I did shows at my house way before The Measure started. I played in a bunch of hardcore bands, but I always referred to them as punk rock bands ‘cause that’s where I was coming from. It’s interchangeable to me. I just wanted—I’m really big on symbols—something to put on all my flyers. I just made that symbol and drew it. I put it on all my records. So when The Measure started, I asked Lauren to put it on our records. It’s really cool ‘cause now a lot of our friends put it on their records. It’s like a cool brand.